If you could ask "The Church" a question..WHAT would it be?

[Susan]

I am looking for questions.
Weird, right? Most people look for answers, I look for questions.
In the near furture, I will be interviewing Pastor Robbie Ousley from Unidiversal Charismatic Christian Faith and Diversity Evangelism, the GLBT-friendly Church I attend.
www.unidiversal.com
I hope to have a list of questions from around the globe. They can be faith based, the role of the Church in the GLBT community, activist related, pets, really...ANYTHING you want to ask!!

Let me know your question, and please also let me know if you want me to use your name when asking the question (and/or which name you want me to use.)

Thanks for your help!

[SistersTalk]

This is a great idea! If I can think of a good question, I'll let you know. I'm sure you have plenty good ones already.

[jaysays]

Something that I've been seeing a little here and there in the blogosphere (more than mainstream media) is that evangelical Christians are stating that moderate and liberal Christians are not "Christians." The claims are that they have started a new religion and are using the same name. I would love to hear thoughts about that from a "Christian" perspective. More specifically, does this represent a tear in religion which will form yet another "sect"?

Thanks for doing this. I look forward to hearing more on the topic. Please feel free to use my name or whatever name you make up for me.

[Susan]

I've actually gotten surprising little response so far. I think some people are so overwhelmed with ideas, it's hard to put the into words. But, I do have a few good ones!
Thanks, Jay, that is a GREAT question, and one I think many people would like to discuss.I will be sure to use it.

I hope once we get the interview done, I can post the video, or a link to the video, on Gay Wallet so that everyone can see it.

[Jeannette B]

I'd like to hear him discuss what the Bible has to say about homosexuality and what he thinks of how the non-gay-friendly Christians interpret those passages.

[Lady Sway]

If the bible says "love thy enemy as thy self" or "do not judge less they be judged" why so much religous descrimination?

[jaysays]

There's a really great artcile written by a preacher in my hometown that discusses the issue of what the Bible says about homosexuality. Perhaps it will help with interview questions and give more food for thought. You can find it here:

http://blogs.salon.com/0001772/thebibleandhomosexuality.html

Much peace.

Jeannette B said:

I'd like to hear him discuss what the Bible has to say about homosexuality and what he thinks of how the non-gay-friendly Christians interpret those passages.

[SistersTalk]

Are you serious? These people actually think THEY know what a real Christian is?

What about the various denominations: Lutheran, Catholic, Baptist, etc. Which one of them is the REAL Christian?

jaysays said:

Something that I've been seeing a little here and there in the blogosphere (more than mainstream media) is that evangelical Christians are stating that moderate and liberal Christians are not "Christians." The claims are that they have started a new religion and are using the same name. I would love to hear thoughts about that from a "Christian" perspective. More specifically, does this represent a tear in religion which will form yet another "sect"?

Thanks for doing this. I look forward to hearing more on the topic. Please feel free to use my name or whatever name you make up for me.

[Susan]

This is awesome stuff friends! Keep it coming, I am keeping track and will be sure to use you questions in the interview!

[Susan]

Hey Jaysays...and everybody.....

We plan on using ALL over your questions in the interview...so THANK YOU for your help.

Pastor Robbe Ousley wanted to comment directly.....here is what he had to say....

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the great question worded so well. I'll try to put a tornado of issues your question brings to mind into a few thoughts. The answer really is so simple I just can't figure out why so many acclaimed believer's complicate it so much.

People seem to be having problems identifying who "evangelicals" are. Since we're talking about the difference between evangelicals and moderate to liberals I want to point out that the dictionary says evangelicals are those "pertaining to or in keeping with the gospel and its teachings." In other words, in order for someone to be evangelical they have to be sharing the gospel ("good news") that Jesus Christ provided our salvation of reconciliation to God by "grace alone". Grace means that there is absolutely nothing we can do to save ourselves without exception, so He did it all. Most people I know who claim to be Christian with any label agree with that statement and if they don't then I don't see how they can be reading the Bible for themselves without twisting what it says. The reason this is so important to answering your question is because the differences between evangelicals and moderate to liberals is purely political.
Rather than people claiming labels to promote the cause of Christ in "grace", it has become a way to try to gain persuasion and power politically or over individuals. I can understand that some labels are needed to try to accomplish protection and rights, but anyone of any persuasion who claims that someone else who claims to be a Christian is not a Christian is in direct opposition to the grace-driven cause of Christ. Time and time again the God of the Christian Bible (unlike any other religion) expressly accuses people of trying to do His job for Him by judging and condemning others they disagree with. The New Testament clearly tells us that we do not know each other's hearts like God does and we cannot divide the chaff/weeds/unbeliever's from the wheat/believer's and God will do that when His time comes to do so. There is even a situation where the Apostles come to Jesus, telling Him they stopped others who were doing miracles in Jesus name because they were not part of the Apostles following. Jesus clearly told them NOT to stop those "other Christians" because anyone who is for Jesus cannot be against Him (insinuating that if they are not really for Jesus then they aren't a concern of God's anyway).

SECOND PART OF YOUR QUESTION: "The claims are that they [moderate to liberal Christians] have started a new religion and are using the same name. I would love to hear thoughts about that from a "Christian" perspective. More specifically, does this represent a tear in religion which will form yet another "sect"?"
Depending on whether you are listening to a conservative evangelical or a moderate to liberal Christian, you'll get two totally different answers. Extreme conservative evangelicals generally believe anyone else is a totally different religion no matter what denomination or other belief they have. Religious moderate to conservatives usually believe everyone who claims to believe is Christian. This is a deceptive division because the deception is not the division between religions it is between religious and nonreligious Christian faith. Look up any version of the word "religion" you can find in the Christian Bible (religion, religions, religious, etc.) and you will find it is only used in reference to rituals, legalism, and hypocrites except in one place where it was used to try to help some religious people understand how faith is different from religion. Dictionaries start out describing "religion" as a set of beliefs but end with making those beliefs into actions of practices and traditions. In reality, "religion" is people's efforts to gain or earn salvation for themselves: A big no-no repeated many times by Christ and the disciples. Even when Paul wrote about rules in churches he sometimes followed them up immediately with a statement that if there is any contention/disagreement over these things then they are null and void as if there is no such rule.
I've heard pastors say that Christianity without religion is like a boat without oars or sails. Let anyone who wants religion go at it, God takes care of "faith" so it's no wonder religious people feel like they have to be so defensive about their beliefs. I established UCF as "undenominational", rather than nondenominational or identifying with any denomination, and received a lot of criticism over it. But, I did it because denominationalism is not just categorizing, it is religion. Jesus established Christianity without barriers because He said let whoever will come (insinuating to come just as we are), and said that He draws/welcomes "all people" to Himself. Then He offended every kind of religious person by partying with every kind of people who didn't even claim to believe in Him and telling stories about inviting every stranger possible into the parties. I don't know how He could have made it any clearer. There is definitely no commandment, direction, or even an insinuation that not everybody should be welcome into churches and full faith in Christ. If anything; He demanded just the opposite and I find that exciting. And don't let anybody trick you into thinking that faith = religion because it does not. I don't really have anything against religion or religions at all, they just can't get people to God without grace through faith alone.
So, does the conservative evangelicals point of contention with moderate to liberals represent a tear in religion forming another "sect"? If the sect is "religion" then no, there's no "new" sect. It's the same old sect of religion since ancient times rearing it's ugly head through many different holes. Many religious holes have been buried in the past; like the one where some church leaders tried to say that the Bible supports slavery. It doesn't, and it doesn't support hate-crimes either, as some have tried to say. The Bible in no way supports way too many things religious Christians twist the Bible to claim it does. One of my rules of thumb is that if you can't read and study something in the Bible for yourself and come up with a consistent perspective from throughout the Bible then it's not an idea the Bible promotes. Yes, there's division and sects of religions, none are new, but Christ-like Christianity is not based on religion; it is based on faith. With faith, the sails and ores of Christianity are our hope in God through the grace provided by Jesus Christ.

A question I want to turn back your way is: If condemning Christians claim to be conservative, then what are they trying to conserve? They obviously aren't trying to conserve Jesus grace-driven gospel of 2000 years ago. In my opinion, it seems that condemning Christians are trying to wrongly do God's job for Him, possibly even trying to protect God (which is impossible for people to do and He does just fine for Himself). Could it be that they are just trying to conserve their own idea of religion rather than Jesus way of being saved "by grace through faith." Among other labels, if people insist on labels, we can claim to be evangelical because we share the Gospel good-news of fully grace-driven faith in Christ and we can claim to be conservative because we are conserving that same original message instead of the more recent ideas people have for covering their own sin or earning their own salvation.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Paraphrase: By grace alone you are saved through faith; and it can not be earned by you own efforts because it is a totally free gift from God.

For more on this subject see what you think about this UCF page:
http://www.unidiversal.com/warningyield.html

[jaysays]

Please thank Pastor Ousley for me for his detailed discussion and explanation. I'm going to have to think on it for some time!

Susan said:

Hey Jaysays...and everybody.....

We plan on using ALL over your questions in the interview...so THANK YOU for your help.

Pastor Robbe Ousley wanted to comment directly.....here is what he had to say....

[Susan]

I plan on using everyone's questions in the interview, and I will try to post it when it is done. In the meantime, Pastor Robbie wanted to try to answer A couple more questions here:

From Pastor Robbie Ousley:

"Hi Jeannette and Lady Sway,

Thank you for your questions that open a door specifically to a near and dear subject. As you probably know, there are tons of articles and Bible studies concerning Homosexuality and the Bible throughout the Internet, in bookstores and libraries. They give all kinds of points of view and you are welcome to look at some of my in-depth discussion on this issue at:
http://www.unidiversal.com/TPhomosexuality.html
Click on the "Beliefs" button for articles about several different issues and please feel free to bring more specific question back here or there as you wish So, if it is ok with you, I would like to take a very different approach to your questions that is fresh and totally heart-felt:

There is not one single letter, word, statement, verse, chapter, book, or testament of the Christian Bible that needs to be changed, reinterpreted, or twisted to show that God loves and accepts all people just as they are. For some unknown reason, many very devout believer's claim that whole segments of people are unacceptable to God. Why?! Where in the Bible does it tell them to "judge so that they will be judged", or that Jesus "came to condemn the world so that no one could be saved"? Have the judgmental and condemning people who claim to be Christians been so blinded to think that they happen to be clean and clear enough from wrong-doing that God accepts them more than someone else? I have news for those who think such a thing as if they have any chance of being worthy of salvation: God can't do anything for anybody who thinks they are worthy in any way of reconciliation to Him. God is all powerful, but human pride and arrogance cannot be conquered by Him because He has to be recognized as the one and only truly worthy and perfect being. What happens to so many people when they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior to make them think that the "totally free gift" of God's grace through faith makes them worthy of His favor? That tells me it is time for someone to stop, truly humble themselves to identify how unworthy they are. Then maybe, just maybe, they would be able to come back and ask forgiveness from God for trying to protect God's interests, which is not possible, and then ask forgiveness from their fellow GLBT Christians for trying to play God over them.

"Religious" is the key word in those questions. Religion is people's effort to save themselves through actions, traditions, and rituals in order to feel worthy. If I can only think clean enough or do enough favors for people or be kind enough then maybe God will tolerate me in heaven. This is just the opposite of everything Jesus spoke about salvation. Religious people think that somehow in some twisted way something they can do can force God to love them. And since it doesn't work, they try to make other people earn God's love and acceptance too. Since the beginning of time people have been trying to make their own way to God. The first sin was not that Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it was Adam's disobedience to God's direction for him to care for the garden. If Adam would have been caring for the garden the way he was suppose to then it would have been protected from the serpent ever getting in. When Eve ate the fruit, Adam was guilty and thought it would cover his wrong by equalizing the sin of Eve onto himself. Then they tried to cover themselves with leaves and God shed blood to do the covering for them. Then, if read closely, every situation where God's anger was being released onto people was because they would not follow His plan and excluded others, especially those in need.

If Jesus said something then I believe it. He didn't say one word against homosexuality and the times when Jesus became highly emotional and angry enough to be somewhat violent was when people were being taken advantage of and kept from faith in God by others; mainly done by the "religious" leaders. It's no different today. So many acclaimed Christians want to say that they follow Jesus example. But, they don't get upset at all when people are being taken advantage of or discouraged from faith in Him. Some people define Homosexuality as sexual sin. But sexual sin is the same in all sexualities: not being faithful to commitments that have been made; trying to steal what is not owned; lying and deceiving to force our own way when others would not choose that way if they knew the truth; and so on. Sexual sin is much more prevalent with heterosexuality than homosexuality if for no other reason than there are millions more acting out in heterosexuality.

So, what is it then? How can so many people be so blind to the truth? The truth is that homosexuality, just like heterosexuality, is not about sex; it is about building a life. Neither is about trying to destroy anyone, but both are misused to do just that. Neither is about being offensive, but far too many people are easily offended in direct opposition to the Christian Bible's teaching. Time and time again Jesus hung out with people who acclaimed Christians wouldn't be caught dead with. When they told Jesus that they were offended, Jesus would go hang out with more "offensive" people and didn't condemn, judge, or discourage them from faith in any way. In fact, Jesus clearly told them if they believe then they are welcome too; and He did not tell them to stop being offensive to sensitive believer's to become a believer.

I can be offended but not so much by things people willingly do, even if it's hurting themselves (although it's hard on the heart-strings to see people risking their life and livelihoods). I am offended by those who claim to have faith and try to use it against people instead of for them, or who act like faith is withheld from anyone who they disagree with. Don't believe it for one moment! God loves and accepts every person just as you are, and this is a full gospel minister saying this. Not one thing can keep you or anybody else from the love of God except a person's own denial of God's love for themself.
Quote: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39

Nowhere in this statement does it say "unless you are homosexual" or "unless you are (anything else)".

It doesn't take church to be a Christian, although church can certainly be an encouragement without judgmental and condemning going on. All this having been said: please realize that a lot of people who claim faith in Christ actually have religion instead; and not all who hang around condemners are actually condemners themselves any more than being friends with a thief made Jesus a thief. Things are slowly getting better and churches like www.unidiversal.com are raising up across North America and in some other areas of the world. We're still few and far between but we're working on it. Nobody has to be afraid of these particular churches who love "everyone". They're definitely not like the attitudes found in others. Though not required in any way, shape, or form; it is a very good thing to show support for these types of churches simply by your presence. There may be those who criticize you for going to such a church, but at least you will have the calm assurance that Christ is being emulated there and others may find out that faith isn't the torture so many seem to be. And, who knows; in the mean time you might actually be encouraged to be around such open door to faith in Christ yourself. "

For more on this subject see what you think about this UCF page:
http://www.unidiversal.com/TPHumanReligious.html

[Kim]

Bill Maher's new documentary. ... RELIGULOUS ~

My wife and I rented this film about two weeks ago!! (= Oh!! How wonderful it is!!!! Bill Maher took his questions all the way to the Vatican!! ~~ And was thrown out, film crew and all!!! LOL!! I had never seen anything like this!! He asked all the right questions!!!! Love it!!!! (= You may have already seen it, however, I have posted a link so you can check out the trailer. Muah!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfHDqzXCegs