Reverse Discrimination...Does it serve a purpose?

[ChristopherSays]

Should persons flaunting their “straight lifestyle” be banned from LGBT owned and operated businesses?

Check out this story found in the Chicago Tribune from AP writer Caryn Rousseau.

[SistersTalk]

Christopher:

This is an interesting story - and one I'm very familiar with. There are lots of people who don't care to see bachelorette parties at our local gay bar.

I agree: it's annoying and painful to see straight bride-to-bes come into a gay bar to celebrate a right that homosexuals do not have. Would I ask them to leave? Absolutely not. Would I stick around to watch their antics? Nope.

Regardless of how I feel about bachelorette parties taking place at a gay bar, in my opinion, it's discriminatory to hang up a sign that says "No bachelorette parties."

[jaysays]

You know... I go so back and forth on this. I agree that the businesses can draw attention to the fact that they can marry and we cannot, so why would we celebrate their marriage along with them. At the same time, allowing them entry could result in people like me telling them, "Congratulations. I hope someday you can celebrate my marriage with me too." So...

I don't think it's "discrimination" as bachelorettes aren't exactly a "suspect class" and they aren't banning straight people.

That said, I did get called a "faggot" at a gay bar by a straight patron hanging on to his girlfriend and being all swollen up like a rooster at a cock fight... so I'm pretty biased about allowing straight people without an accompanying homosexual into a gay bar at all ;)

[ChristopherSays]

I say invite them in!!! Then, using part of Jay's response we could say "Congratulations! I hope that someday you can celebrate my marriage with me too" but then add “until that day comes, may your marriage be filled with misery as you and your adulterous husband honor the sanctity of marriage. May your man’s back grow hairy and his balls sag to the floor. May you acquire the taste for famunda as his unclean ways and yours merge to further strengthen this holy union. And may you wonder why it is that you continue to develop yeast infections time and time again. Bitch!

So…for your first anniversary, come on back to this fine establishment, the Man Hole. Us girls and well…those boi’s, the ones over there wearing flannel…we’ll all pitch in and get you a lifetime supply of Monistat.

Wishing you the perfect wedding day!”

[SistersTalk]

Someone else suggested asking the hetero brides to sign a gay marriage petition - instead of asking them to leave.

[James Lawler]

This story fascinated me. To think that an owner of a gay establishment would discriminate is only playing into the hands of those who critize us and deny us our rights. We, as members of the GLBT community, should strive to lead by example and not allow our negative feelings to guide our decisions whether professionally or personally. I too have suffered their ridicule and stares when going out in public with my partner and I refuse to let this embitter me. I am their equal, whether they like it or not.

[ChristopherSays]

Hi James...

Although I've attempted to make a joke out of this story, I do agree with you and Genia for the most part. However, I feel that we are beyond the equal of the majority with regard to so many elements of what it is to be human. We are more compassionate, we are more empathetic and we are less judgmental. Because of our experiences we know and understand what it is to be treated poorly based on nothing more than identity and therefore; would rarely, if ever, treat another with such disdain and disregard.

It is difficult to define who a space belongs to, so forgive me for my ignorance as I try to poorly express this next idea…

These bachelorettes have encroached upon the space of the LGBT community. They freely walk into our establishments to celebrate the very institution we are denied by the majority to which they belong. In spite of this, we recognize the importance of their celebration and typically say nothing. We even celebrate with them.

What else could we possibly do?

Sober them up once, twice, several times throughout the evening by discussing the inequities that are taking place right before their eyes; the injustices LGBT persons experience on a daily basis because not enough people are speaking up.

Tell them to speak up! Buy them a shot! And toast to their marriage!

James Lawler said:

This story fascinated me. To think that an owner of a gay establishment would discriminate is only playing into the hands of those who critize us and deny us our rights. We, as members of the GLBT community, should strive to lead by example and not allow our negative feelings to guide our decisions whether professionally or personally. I too have suffered their ridicule and stares when going out in public with my partner and I refuse to let this embitter me. I am their equal, whether they like it or not.

[SistersTalk]

Several months ago, I was at our local gay bar for Karaoke. A new girl I hadn't seen before came over to talk. She immediately identified herself by saying, "I'm straight but I like hanging out here. It's fun." I was annoyed immediately.

At some point during the conversation she whipped out her phone to show me some pictures from her recent wedding. I had to stop her. I said, "Are you seriously showin' a lesbian your wedding pictures?" She looked confused. I asked her if she thought it was a bit insensitive to be in a gay bar showing off a right that none of the gay patrons had. She admitted she'd never thought of it that way. She put her phone away.

We talked the rest of the night about politics. She seemed sincerely interested in learning more about gay equality. I haven't seen her since then though.

[James Lawler]

Hi Christopher,

I completely understanding your stance on this issue. I have found myself being offended at seeing str8 couples in gay clubs. My only concern is that if we have our "spaces" and they have their "spaces", then we have perpetuated their shallow ideas of our livestyle being something that has to be hidden away in a dark corner of town where no str8 person dare tread.

Just as I should be able to be myself in a str8 bar or club, so should str8s be able to be themselves in gay establishments. Maybe by opening the doors of our lives to everyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, we will gain their trust and support for issues that concern us. As much as I hate to admit it, the support of the str8 community is essential for us to realize equality in American society. Our LGBT community is much too disorganized and apathetic to affect change on our own (and the politicians know it!). We can only bring str8 people around by engaging with them, not isolating.

Anyhow....sorry if I drifted off subject (that bachelorette thing, right?).

Take care,
James



ChristopherSays said:

Hi James...

Although I've attempted to make a joke out of this story, I do agree with you and Genia for the most part. However, I feel that we are beyond the equal of the majority with regard to so many elements of what it is to be human. We are more compassionate, we are more empathetic and we are less judgmental. Because of our experiences we know and understand what it is to be treated poorly based on nothing more than identity and therefore; would rarely, if ever, treat another with such disdain and disregard.

It is difficult to define who a space belongs to, so forgive me for my ignorance as I try to poorly express this next idea…

These bachelorettes have encroached upon the space of the LGBT community. They freely walk into our establishments to celebrate the very institution we are denied by the majority to which they belong. In spite of this, we recognize the importance of their celebration and typically say nothing. We even celebrate with them.

What else could we possibly do?

Sober them up once, twice, several times throughout the evening by discussing the inequities that are taking place right before their eyes; the injustices LGBT persons experience on a daily basis because not enough people are speaking up.

Tell them to speak up! Buy them a shot! And toast to their marriage!

James Lawler said:

This story fascinated me. To think that an owner of a gay establishment would discriminate is only playing into the hands of those who critize us and deny us our rights. We, as members of the GLBT community, should strive to lead by example and not allow our negative feelings to guide our decisions whether professionally or personally. I too have suffered their ridicule and stares when going out in public with my partner and I refuse to let this embitter me. I am their equal, whether they like it or not.

[Gregg Hill]

I can see both sides of the story here. The bar owner had a right to be upset but shouldn't have posted the sign up in that manner. I mean sure we want to have rights to b-wed our lovers but we shouldn't take them kind of measures. I know the bar sign sparked up a little in peoples eye, when por8 was passed but that only happen because pro8 was passed.
Now the bachelorette ordeal, The girls probably wasn't even thinking, just going into gay bars to rub it in the gays faces. I mean Hell if someone ever did think that way, would hate gays there for wouldn't even step foot on a gay street. The only reason them girls probably decided to go to the gay bars would be just to have a fun time. Some of my STraight guys and girls friends go to gay bars because they think it's fun as Fuged.Plus the bride might have wanted to go to a gay bar hoping that no straight guy was there to try to hit on her friends and her. Plus you know how some straight girls love the attention from gay guys.

[Diekia]

The constant need of the HUGE Umbrella ella ella of the LGBTQRXYZ's of having this practically political "cultish" front... has always disturbed me. Zaharakis is making HIS political statement. It's his. He has NOTHING to apologize for/explain. Just as the owner having het brides sign petitions is making his own political statement/action.

I don't think every political statement has to be necessarily polite/catering. If het brides are offended/angered w/ALL their privilege, banned from an establishment, because THE owner/patrons of that establishment are not entitled to the same rights... then it's up to the privileged to check their own outrage & why.

If they don't "get it", then in my experience, these are the same "allies" who don't have a problem w/"de gheys" just as long as the gays know their place.

Oh how the tune would change if a het male bachelor party showed up at a Dyke Club Coyote Ugly theme night?
Oh their "allies" all right... **smirk**

This is similar to white folks bitching about "reverse discrimination". It's bullshit. Hets have 98% of the clubs/bars/strip joints in any given city and it's up to queers to make them feel comfortable? Spare me. Het bridezillas and their little entourages are more then free to be as narcissistic as they want about their "BIG day"... doesn't mean that lezzies/homos have to sit down, shut up and "gratefully" agree about it all in OUR very few spaces.

[jaysays]

It seems to me that we are talking on two levels here: (1) straight people; and (2) bachelorettes. If the club put up a sign that said, "No Straights" I would be more prone to be upset about "discrimination." However, can we really define discrimination as to "bachelorette" status.

James seems to be touching on an issue that has been very curious to me for some time, social-segregation. Obviously, there are no laws saying "straights only" and "gays only" in society as such existed in the time of the African American rights movement of the 60's. I think we gays have self-segregated for our own protection, but we do need to bring down our walls.

That being said, I just hate the idea of celebrating anyone's marriage until everyone has the right to marry. It makes me feel physically ill to consider sitting through a wedding. I don't know that I could be cordial in congratulating the couple without making it a political issue - then I've spoiled their day, right? Well, my day isn't coming anytime in the very near future and after 12 years of non-marriage, Amendment 2, Prop 8 and the countless other attacks on LGBT people throughout the country - sorry, but I don't care where you are registered or what china pattern you want - you won't be getting a gift or card from me. That's not because I'm angry with a person or even a group of persons, it's because it hurts too much.

Frankly, I don't want to sit there, watching a happy hetero-couple say their vows and rejoice in the benefits they receive by saying, "I do" when there is no way, paperwork or not, I will ever receive all of those same benefits --- until the laws change.

[SistersTalk]

I'm with you on that one, Jay. I don't know if I could be sincere in congratulating a hetero couple who's getting legally married.

BUT . . . I have straight friends who are huge supporters of gay rights. If one of them asked me to attend their wedding, how should I handle that? Would I go to their wedding? I don't know.

jaysays said:

That being said, I just hate the idea of celebrating anyone's marriage until everyone has the right to marry. It makes me feel physically ill to consider sitting through a wedding. I don't know that I could be cordial in congratulating the couple without making it a political issue - then I've spoiled their day, right? Well, my day isn't coming anytime in the very near future and after 12 years of non-marriage, Amendment 2, Prop 8 and the countless other attacks on LGBT people throughout the country - sorry, but I don't care where you are registered or what china pattern you want - you won't be getting a gift or card from me. That's not because I'm angry with a person or even a group of persons, it's because it hurts too much.

Frankly, I don't want to sit there, watching a happy hetero-couple say their vows and rejoice in the benefits they receive by saying, "I do" when there is no way, paperwork or not, I will ever receive all of those same benefits --- until the laws change.